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Autor Thema: Heroes - how powerful should they be?  (Gelesen 25378 mal)

Lord of Mordor

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Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« am: 11. Jun 2015, 04:37 »
Hey guys,

we'd like to talk to you about the power level of heroes in Edain. For version 4.0, we have greatly weakened heroes compared to previous versions. We did this because we received a lot of feedback that heroes were so powerful that they felt unfair and overbearing, which can't be our goal. We wanted heroes to shine when used in combination to normal troops, with the troops guarding the hero and the hero supporting the army. They should not be one-man armies, but they should still have a significant influence on the battlefield if you combine them with your soldiers and play them well.

At the same time, we're aware that we've a significant shift in hero power and it's very possible that we didn't get it quite right the first time. Heroes are still meant to be a core part of the game und shouldn't be so weak that they're not worth their high cost. That's why we wanted to ask you guys a couple of questions:

1) Which heroes are your favorites? Which do you find so useful and/or fun that you try to recruit them as often as possible?

2) Are there any heroes you almost never use because you find them too weak or simply not fun?

3) In general, are heroes fun to use and does it feel good to play with them? Or do you find them rather boring and not all that important?

4) How do you like the health of heroes? Our goal was that a hero couldn't simply walk into an army all on his own and survive, but on the other hand he shouldn't die in seconds either if you pay a bit of attention and support them with troops. Do you think this goal was achieved or are there heroes which are too healthy / not healthy enough?

5) How do you like the melee damage of heroes? Do you find heroes appropriately effective against most targets (including monsters and other heroes) or would you prefer a lower or higher melee damage in general?

6) Same question for ranged hero damage. If heroes can switch between melee and ranged like Faramir or Lurtz, do you find both modes useful?

7) Finally, we'd like to discuss hero abilities, using Gandalf as an example because he has a plethora of damage spells. First off, a general question: Do you think Gandalf is useful and powerful enough for his cost, or do you think his spells are now too weak?

8) Do you think Gandalf's wizard blast is too weak, too strong or just right at the moment? This ability has its own unique problem. In general, we feel that it could be allowed to deal pretty high damage because its radius is rather small. However, troops often clump together on one spot in this game, which is something we can't change. So if wizard blast is strong enough to kill one group of soldiers, it could also kill ten groups who are all standing on the same spot. Of course, one could say that it's now up to the enemy to position his troops in such a way that wizard blast can't hit all of them. This is difficult, however, because troops automatically clump. What do you think about this? If a Gondor soldier has 400 health, a Dol Amroth soldier has 1000 and a Citadel Guard has 3000, how much damage should wizard blast deal in your mind?

9) The same question has to be asked for Word of Power. Should it destroy armies entirely or weaken them without destroying them? In theory, a rank 10 ability from a hero for 3000 resources might be allowed to destroy an army of cheap infantry. After all, Gondor soldiers only cost 200 per group. In this case, they'd require heavy armor to survive. On the other hand, it's not very strategically challenging to simply destroy an army with the press of one button. The challenge would be bringing the hero to rank 10 in the first place. However, once that is reached you could frequently force a Mordor player to rebuild his entire army from scratch, which could be frustrating or even decide the match in a single click. Would that be an exciting possibility to turn the game around to you or unfairly punishing? How strong would you like the Word of Power to be, and do you find it useful at the moment?

Thanks in advance for your feedback :)
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Sir Palmdiggity888

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #1 am: 11. Jun 2015, 07:03 »
Hello

I find my self playing with Gondor the most and I find their heroes to be a bit lacking in power , Beregond specifically if feel he dies far too quickly and can't hold his own. I understand he he is a low cost hero but I like the look of him and I think an elete tower guard should hold his own a bit better. Also in relation to that , I think it would be terrific if the grey company would remain for the duration of their lives.

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #2 am: 11. Jun 2015, 10:07 »
Hello! :) Well as you have probably guessed my favourite Hero/es is/are Lord Dain Ironfoot of the Iron Hills and King Dain II Ironfoot of Erebor followed by Durin the Deathless and Thorin Oakenshield and Thorin III Stonehelm! :) And other are Arvedui,Aranarth and Thranduil! :)
As for changes well I think Durin is perfect and doesnt need any changes! While Lord Dain need a little bit more dmg and health while King Dain somewhat less health ,more def and the dmg is fine! :) Thorin is great I have nothing against him,while Thorin III needs may be better skills and somewhat stronger leadership thouigh I love his rune Powers in both versions :)
Now for the Heroes of te Demo, I too find Gondor and Rohan Heroes a little bit too weak , ithink they need may be a little higher deffence while the dmg is fine and Boromir some better powers,but in a matter of def,dmg and armor I think the Game modes do the work so basicly I see no big problem as they are now but may be some powers can be better! :)
Isengard and Mordor hmm I have played less with them and am not so familliar with their Heroes strenths and weaknesses but I must say Sauron is indeed awesome and have nothing against him,Witch King is fine too while Saruman may need some buust in melee dmg and health!Uruk Heroes I like Isengard heroes each helps with something and are not ovepowered but like and slightly stronger Urik as they should be so for now I think this is it from me :D
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

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DropItLikeItsDogg

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #3 am: 11. Jun 2015, 10:53 »
Saruman is my fav hero he isn't useless but he should have more power & health atleast wizard blast and fireball should have more power, sometimes that makes not fun after you pay 3000 and kill by a cheap hero.. Gandalf & Saruman the same status, wizards are a little bit weak.

dior23

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #4 am: 11. Jun 2015, 12:52 »
hi,
i ithink heroses should have big powers as boromil kill many uruks before he fall and as the book said his body has more than ten arrows.legolas perfect and talaented arrows to are deadly.aragorn's anduril and perfect fighting perception.and more that are really heroes they are powerfull when it needs and they encourage their army.also this fact contains and more powerfull beings as gandalf,galadriel and more,this older and powerfull with knowlege beings should be more powerfull but not as much as to win every army alone accept from the ring heroes.also power beings together with their armies should be the best combination,also hobbits must have something special  to their powers and help armies i think.

NicolajLarsen

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #5 am: 11. Jun 2015, 12:56 »
1) My favorite heroes must be Saruman, Lurts, Éowyn, With-king and Boromir (Even though I think that Boromir, Lurts with bow and Witch-king is too weak) That would be my favorite heroes for now. But if we include the factions not included heroes, then I would say Thranduil, Galadriel, Arwen, Tauriel, Goblin King and The defiler.

2) Well, I do find Beregond boring, I think it's beacuse of the way he attacks with his spear and his abilities is not uninteresting but not interesting either. I don't find the Nazguls as interesting as I think they should be - but I do use them. I also think that Gothmog's attack damge is to low and that Mollock has to low health considered that he is a troll - But they're fun.

3) I think you did a good job making all heroes have some sort of "role" Some is meant for tanking and some is meant to deal damage. But yeah most of the heroes are fun to play.

4) In the beginnig when I started playing the game I needed to adjust to the fact that heroes aren't that strong anymore - with that said, after I tried it a lot, I think that it was a good idea that you did what you did, but some heroes have to low health I think (Gandalf, Witch-King, Gothmog, Mollock, the Nazguls, and maybe Boromir) Roahn heroes are nearly "perfect" I think.

5) Lurtz with bow is seriously too weak. Boromir has a very low damage also (I know he is tank, but then again) Gothmog has a low damage too.  Nazguls and Mouth of Sauron do not damge enough in my opinion. Again Rohan heroes is nearly "perfect" in both health and damage I think.

6) Again, Lurtz with bow is not sufficient enough. Bregond with bow could also get a little stronger, but only a little I think. Faramir is good both ranged and melee if you ask me.

7) As of now I think that Gandalf is far too weak (considered his cost - for now I would say he should cost 2000-2500) I think that both Wizard Blast and Word Of Power should damage units to the "red bar" - Wizard Blast now do only half the health of units (which I don't think is enough) I agree that these abilities should not kill all units in the area, especially when units are clumping) That would be to overpowered in my opinion. I think that damaging to the "red bar" would be a reasonable solution. I would like to say that I think that Saruman is good though (he is as he should be, perfect) Although I would wish that his fireball were much stronger, against everything, especially heroes (like in the vanilla game, he used to have a significant damage on heroes.) Éomer's spear is also kinda useless to me (Do not damage enough) Théoden's favor was also better before - just normally experience. Nazgul's curse blade is also kinda useless to me ( I never use it) Mouth Of Sauron's beam does not damage enough, but all his other abilities are great and usefull. I would also like to say that you did an excellent job with Sharku, he has really improved since vanilla were he was extremely vulnerable.

8) I think I already answered that question above.

9) I think Word Of Power and Wizard Blast should damage to the "red bar" not the yellow as it is now - that is too low.

helloa2134

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #6 am: 11. Jun 2015, 13:27 »
I will reply to each of your questions in turn Lord of Mordor
First I will say I am a huge supporter of the weakening heroes from 3.8.1.  Currently I think the general status of heroes is pretty much perfect, with only a few select heroes needing a tweak.  I agree with you that ALL heroes are essentially support for armies, and not armies in their own right.

1)My absolute favorite hero is currently Beregond. He's an early game hero, very cheap, great at killing creeps, and has a host of very unique abilities.  He is especially good at supporting outlying farms.  His ability to strengthen nearby buildings is immensely useful.  His level 10 ability, the one which enables him to spawn soldiers of the white company, is both very cool and very useful.  He is definitely not a fighter, but he has his strengths in other fields. Also, he evokes some heavy Oblivion nostalgia with his voice, so thats fun.
Mordor's heroes, especially Sauron, are all awesome. However,  I almost never use Mollok , so I cant really speak for him.
Rohan's heroes are all good, especially Gamling, who is especially useful for his early game ability to summon infantry squads, as well as for his late game ability to reinforce all squads and speed up infantry production. Theoden, both corrupted and not, has a host of useful abilities. Glorious Charge especially is both useful and simply badass. Denethor is just a thoroughly unique hero, and he has really cool abilities. You also did a very good job of showing Denethor's descent into madness through the use of the palantir, so kudos for that.

2)I have only minor gripes about a few heroes.  Aragorn's King Elessar faction-wide ability needs some refinement, but that is a separate topic. Other than that Aragorn is fine. Theodred is really only useful once he has been leveled up a bit. I wouldn't go so far as to say he is bad though. I also don't feel Mel Gibson's voice is really fitting but that isn't really a major complaint.  :D  Imrahil is a thoroughly average hero. He isn't particularly useful aside from being a prerequisite for the production of Dol Amroth heroes. I usually produce him for that, but I don't ever feel excited about using him.
Boromir currently isn't as useful because his horn has been marginalized because of the widespread fear resistance, but that issue is being solved. Lurtz and Ugluk are thematically good, as the leaders of the Uruk-hai, but their abilities are not that impressive. Ugluk's heal and leadership are useful, but his late game abilities are meh. Lurtz as well is ok, but not great. I use them when they are required, but don't look forward to using them. N.B. If I don't mention a hero, I think he/she is great currently.

3/4/5)Yes, I think heroes are currently fun to play and useful as well. I think, generally, they are well balanced health-wise and damage-wise and thematically appropriate as well.

6)Heroes with both melee and range (like Beregond) are useful, though I do tend to stick with one. It's useful when my hero gets wounded, I can pull my hero out of harm's way but still have him do damage to the enemy. Lurtz and Faramir, who have ranged abilities as well as melee, encourage me to use both ranged and melee, though I do tend to stick to one over the other.

7)Gandalf/Saruman are useful, but expensive. At the same time, I do not think their powers could be strengthened significantly without unbalancing the game, nor do I think their cost should be lowered much.

8/9) Word of Power should weaken an upgraded army or drastically wound non-upgraded infantry , but not kill them outright. Naturally a ring-empowered Gandalf should do even more damage to the extent that it heavily damages even an upgraded army. But to kill an army with one click is too powerful and not at all strategic. It's fun when playing against the AI, but just annoying when playing multiplayer. The same can be said for Saruman's lightening strike.  Wizard's blast should do approximately 300 damage (going by your figures listed above.) Normal soldiers should be brought to low health and elite infantry should be harmed significantly. However, hero-infantry (like Citadel Guards) should barely be affected. I mean, hero-infantry should be able to kill heroes.
If Wizard's Blast does more damage as the hero levels up, then it should kill basic non-upgraded infantry outright at higher levels.

numan1111

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #7 am: 11. Jun 2015, 13:35 »
1) My favorite heroes must be Saruman, Lurts, Éowyn, With-king and Boromir (Even though I think that Boromir, Lurts with bow and Witch-king is too weak) That would be my favorite heroes for now. But if we include the factions not included heroes, then I would say Thranduil, Galadriel, Arwen, Tauriel, Goblin King and The defiler.

2) Well, I do find Beregond boring, I think it's beacuse of the way he attacks with his spear and his abilities is not uninteresting but not interesting either. I don't find the Nazguls as interesting as I think they should be - but I do use them. I also think that Gothmog's attack damge is to low and that Mollock has to low health considered that he is a troll - But they're fun.

3) I think you did a good job making all heroes have some sort of "role" Some is meant for tanking and some is meant to deal damage. But yeah most of the heroes are fun to play.

4) In the beginnig when I started playing the game I needed to adjust to the fact that heroes aren't that strong anymore - with that said, after I tried it a lot, I think that it was a good idea that you did what you did, but some heroes have to low health I think (Gandalf, Witch-King, Gothmog, Mollock, the Nazguls, and maybe Boromir) Roahn heroes are nearly "perfect" I think.

5) Lurtz with bow is seriously too weak. Boromir has a very low damage also (I know he is tank, but then again) Gothmog has a low damage too.  Nazguls and Mouth of Sauron do not damge enough in my opinion. Again Rohan heroes is nearly "perfect" in both health and damage I think.

6) Again, Lurtz with bow is not sufficient enough. Bregond with bow could also get a little stronger, but only a little I think. Faramir is good both ranged and melee if you ask me.

7) As of now I think that Gandalf is far too weak (considered his cost - for now I would say he should cost 2000-2500) I think that both Wizard Blast and Word Of Power should damage units to the "red bar" - Wizard Blast now do only half the health of units (which I don't think is enough) I agree that these abilities should not kill all units in the area, especially when units are clumping) That would be to overpowered in my opinion. I think that damaging to the "red bar" would be a reasonable solution. I would like to say that I think that Saruman is good though (he is as he should be, perfect) Although I would wish that his fireball were much stronger, against everything, especially heroes (like in the vanilla game, he used to have a significant damage on heroes.) Éomer's spear is also kinda useless to me (Do not damage enough) Théoden's favor was also better before - just normally experience. Nazgul's curse blade is also kinda useless to me ( I never use it) Mouth Of Sauron's beam does not damage enough, but all his other abilities are great and usefull. I would also like to say that you did an excellent job with Sharku, he has really improved since vanilla were he was extremely vulnerable.

8) I think I already answered that question above.

9) I think Word Of Power and Wizard Blast should damage to the "red bar" not the yellow as it is now - that is too low.
I agree with you man with all points.Especially about wizard heroes.Blast and wop is really weak.Also fireball ability is so weak.Cant kill even gondor knights(without armor).
Also Sauron with ring should be stronger.(he has a little damage even though his attack speed is slow).Also Witchking is weak, too wrt his cost.And Aragorn is useless I think.

Adrigabbro

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #8 am: 11. Jun 2015, 15:41 »
We wanted heroes to shine when used in combination to normal troops, with the troops guarding the hero and the hero supporting the army. They should not be one-man armies, but they should still have a significant influence on the battlefield if you combine them with your soldiers and play them well.

First, I'd like to say that I completely agree with you on that point and that you globally managed particularly well.


1) I like Sauron, all Nazguls, Lurtz, Ugluk, Saruman, Faramir, Aragorn, pretty much all Rohan heroes and especially Rohan captains.
On the other hand I dislike Mollok (I think Mordor doesn't need such a hero and removing him wouldn't harm the faction; plus he is not lore frendly). I think Gandalf's Istari Light should be removed in favor of a leadership because his supporting aspect is totally forgotten. Finally I'd nerf Grima again on his base damage and survivability while reducing his price so that his non fighter but vicious threat aspect is clearly shown.

2) Mollok is the only one.

3) Heores are both very fun and important.

4) They have the very right amount of health.

5) Melee damage are fine but there's one thing that is not fine at all in my opinion: it is the damage of flying units/heroes on catapults; although it was too high in 3.8.1, it is now far too low.

6) I don't really know on that one. It feels like ranged damag eare low but in the same time it would be OP if ranged heroes got more damage, right?

7) 8) 9) I think Gandalf is worth recruiting only if you have a lot of resources to spend (unlike Sarum who is I think much stronger). His wizard blast damage is quite ok but word of powers' is not: for a level 10 ability of such a powerful hero, I do think it should kill all non elite units in a large radius.


EDIT: Special mntion to Theoden and his glorious charge: it is so fraking awesome.
I also forgot to state that I've found one thing very frustrating: it's the fact that Sauron (in all forms) has to come near the building he wants to influence, that's against fun. Same thing for Denethor and his upgrade to a banner carrier. It would be so much better, I think, if there was no range restriction on those powers.
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Jun 2015, 15:45 von Adrigabbro »


"That still only counts as one!"

ziqing

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #9 am: 11. Jun 2015, 15:45 »
Gondor: Useful
Boromir is definitely the core hero here, he has the most powerful leadership and very useful skills.
Faramir is also good, unfortunately he could only be recruited through ranger camps, or he will definitely be the most common hero
Beregond is good, he only costs 1000 after all and could give some defense bonus for building

Not useful

Aragorn is too expensive for a pure hero killer, I mean for his cost he should definitely be the main hero for late stage. My suggestion is as always, make Aragron change his role from hero killer to unit supporter with hero killer aspect as he follows his destiny. As ranger he is a pure hero killer, with ranger cloak he is like an assassin. From the second form he should gradually have stronger leadership and maybe lose part of his hero-killer aspects, we should think a way to avoid the leadership from becoming too strong together with Boromir and Faramir 's. I think there is more than one threads here for the discussion of this topic.

Imrahil: He is a good supplement for Gondor. But I hardly ever get him in a real game. Because I really don't build fortress that much. Maybe we should make him more accessible in the future.

Gandalf: As a 3000 hero with a power only to support him, he is really not worth it. My suggestion is to cancel that white wizard power, gandalf could transform from grey to white at level 5 when he get shadowfax, and maybe also give him some fear resistance leadership. To make his fire ring counts, maybe we should Gandalf more of a supporter instead of massive killer. Actually, looking at all his current abilities, lighting sword and white light are effective towards enemy heroes, which makes him more like a hero killer.

Rohan has the most reasonable hero design, all heroes have clear roles and are of reasonable price. Theoden is the most important one, he is very cheap and could provide a leadership and other support  in very early game. He could transform to his battle form for free with a 3-points power. The next important one is Gamling, his summon ability of lv 2 farmer is ridiculously strong in the early game, not to mention his ability to regenerate units of all maps. The third one is Eomer, his looting leadership is a very important supplement for Rohan's economy in the middle and late stage of game,they need a lot of money to train rohan riders and purchase upgrades after all, since we cann't change from farmer-based army to rider-based army naturally. Other heroes are also useful in their own way.

Isengard doesn't rely on hero too much. Uglak is the most useful hero in my opinion, for his dark medicine and march ability and his late game leadership. Lutrz is a hero killer, but that's all about it. Saruman is not very useful, but thanks to Isengard's powerful economy it is not a big deal to recruit him in the middle game. Shakru is only useful when you decide to use warg riders, but since warg riders are not powerful enough to be used as main force of Isengard, he is not that useful, but again I would definitely recruit him if I choose to use warg riders. I never use Grimma or lutz in the game, and to be honest I do not think Grimma deserve to be a hero candidate, a summon from Saruman is enough. My suggestion has been posted before, that makes Saruman a early stage hero, which is basically a unit and building supporter and will transform to his battle form via an upgrade. Since no one pays attention, I would rather keep it that way.

Mordor: I always thought Mordor has more than enough unit diversity but not very satisfying recruitment mechanism, as for heroes, witchking and khamul are too expensive(considering they need fortress and upgrades), while mordor doesn't have extra economy supports(the orcs are free, but they cann't be transformed into economic advantages). The other two Nazguls are also easy to kill, black rider horde is much more powerful and sustainable but they are too expensive. Two orcs heroes are the most common and important hero for mordor, although Gothmog is also very weak in the battle field. Mouth of Sauron seems useful, but again, he is too expensive and highly relies on the level of Necromancer. Mollock is very uncommon for me, and based on my limited experience he is too easy to be killed consider his cost(he recovers too slow)

Walküre

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #10 am: 11. Jun 2015, 19:26 »
I think that the heroes are arguably the most interesting and significant elements of every faction, along obviously with the other elements and parts of the game  :)
This topic is crucial and essential  8-)

1) Without any secret, my favourite hero is obviously Galadriel  :)
She is the leader of her faction and the guardian of the enchanted Golden Wood, made enchanted and sacred by Galadriel herself.

But, since she is not part of the Edain Mod 4.0 yet (I obviously have some very interesting and valuable proposals about her, but I will wait the right time and won't reveal my cards yet  :P), I have to talk about my current favourite hero.

Currently, I really like and appreciate Khamûl :)
I think you perfectly managed to give him a proper status and proper powers for his role as a Building Destroyer; with the passive power 'Khamûl's Presence' his Magic can gradually corrode all the structures he is next to.
Really REMARKABLE!
A true representation of Tolkien's idea of Magic, the presence of a powerful magical being (good or evil) have effects on the Weather of the World and on the sorrounding things  :)

2) I generally use all the heroes of Mordor and Isengard, but I tend not to use or recruit later heroes like Pippin, Boromir when I play Gondor, and Théodred when I play Rohan; I personally don't find those heroes really particular both in their presence and powers.

3) It's generally really fun and exciting playing with them.
But, sometimes, I feel annoyed if they are killed too soon or have not significant effects on the battlefield; for example when Gandalf or Saruman encounter Gríma or other Hero Killers, it seems that their doom is already decided, like they had no chance.
I know that the Hero Killers are so effective for their own role, but, at least, Gandalf or Saruman should have a possibility to repulse them and have thus a chance to flee.

4) The goal has been mostly achieved, but I think that powerful heroes (especially the leaders of the factions) should definitely be more resistant.

5) The heroes are generally effective against troops and structures, but they should totally be more effective against monsters and other heroes.

6) Yes, I do find them useful.

7) His spells should be stronger, and also very dangerous also for the other heroes.

8) The blast should annihilate completely all the basic troops and soldiers, like Orcs and Gondor's basic soldiers (obviously if they were not enhanced by armours or other upgrades); and I would prefer a less damage but a wider radius.

Given these numbers, I would say 700-800.

9) The 'Word of Power' is indeed powerful already by its nature of an iconic destructive power from BFME1  :)

As I wrote for the wizard's blast, it should annihilate completely all the basic units without upgrades and 'moderately' harm all the other ones.
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Jun 2015, 19:33 von DieWalküre »

The Dark Lord

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #11 am: 11. Jun 2015, 19:59 »
1 i ilke the nazgul khamul witchking lurtz uluk gorthaur saruman gothmog
2 i dont use molluk alot because of the price its to high
3 heroes are real fun makes it more like the movies
4 nazgul are too low on healt the cant take one battalion of spearon on on there own the witcking to weak khamul healt is good i like how he is now and nazgul on there fell beast are weak too
5 well i think spearmon are too steong againt heroes the die quiqly
6 range attacks are fine
7 i think gorthaur should get a attack abilty on lvl 4  maby 5 to make him more useful on the battlefield
That what i think about it :)

AndulusOptimus

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #12 am: 11. Jun 2015, 21:14 »
Dear Edain-Team,
great architects and creators of beautiful games

First of all: I always loved that you develop this GAME (not mod) together hand in hand with the community. Something all big studios should copy and at the end the most rewarding and effective way, even though you have to endure some hard discussion times. ;)

Before answering your questions let me say, that I mostly play the "Legendary heroes"-mode. But more on this during my feedback:

1) Aragon is for example one of the heroes, who is big fun to play, because he is changing in abilities and design over time with his experience. I LOVE this! This is one great example for a very interesting character, though I have to admit his stats are not the best (espacially health). Also I love all Mordor heroes, especially the system between sauron and his ringheroes, as well as Ugluk from Isengart. Rohan heroes are ok, but I only very rarely play Rohan, so this may be the reason why.

2) When I think about it, the only one I have never used is Shakur. But I rarely use wargs with isengart which is my personal style when I play isengart as faction. But I have to admit he is one of the least interesting characters - for me!

3) YES!! Heroes are the key to the uniqueness of the factions, the fun, the versatility, the identification with the world!! And you created GREAT heroes and villains already, with unique abilities, great animations and and and! NEVER relinquish this great piece of work!!

4) Good question! I mostly play "Legendary heroes" because in my opinion heroes in the other game modes die far too fast, level up too slow in comparison to the speed of the game and thus cost far too much. Especially some faction leaders like Gandalf.

5) Mostly heroes die too fast, damage is in my opinion mostly very good balanced. Maybe some issues here and there but well I could not tell you specificly what.

6) Haven´t seen elven ranged heroes yet, hope they have some more distance. But I got no complaints about the ranged heroes which are established yet.

Switching weapon is in my opinion a very unique and useful skill, but sometimes none of both skills is mastered strong enough. For example Farodin and Lurtz both do no great damage in aiming with a bow or slaying with the sword. I would think its great if theres still a specialisation. For example Lurtz is stronger with his sword and Farodin is stronger with his bow (as in the movies). You could give them additional skills when having another weapon (like lurtz already has).

7) Gandalf is far too weak for one of the strongest characters. So are his abilities.

8) something about 400-600. Shouldn´t be too strong but strong enough to kill middle class units like gondor soldiers without males (at least when gandalf the white!).

9) FIRST: Gandalfs health should be immensive higher; SECOND: Levelling him should become harder, due to the reason that when you use his abilities well, he levels up quite fast, especially against armies. THIRD: yes, Word of Power should damage intensively. Mordor, for example, has other advantages that hold against Gandalfss word of Power. Perhaps you can prolong the cooldown-time, because it surely is a very strong power and should not be used frequently.

At last let me say, that especially to the mages Saruman and Gandalf you could add more powers, like you did with Saruman in Edain mod 3.8.1. I have to admit I really dislike Saruman in this version. Hes boring and week and no faction leader at all.

But as always, these are minor balance issues and very high-level critics, you know, we all love this game and cant wait for MORE! ;)

All the best, stay sharp, cheers

your companion,
AndulusOptimus

Morgul Orc

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #13 am: 11. Jun 2015, 23:08 »
1) I like Khamul, The Witch-King, Gandalf, Saruman, Aragorn,Theoden, Lurtz, Ugluk and Gothmog. I like to use all Heroes of Isengard and Mordor except Molluk because he's a little expensive. I also like to use all Heroes of Rohan and Gondor but not big fan of the Hobbit Heroes.

2) Some Heroes like Gorbag are weak and cheap that can be useful at start but they don't matter in later game.

3) Yes, I think every Hero is fun to play because they are unique in the Hero system that the Edain Team made.

4) To be fair I think Heroes like Khamul needs to have more health, less than The Witch-King but more than the regular Nazguls. When I use the Nazguls they are usually on foot because they die very quick if they were on horse from pike and if they are on fellbeast from arrows, even 1 archer battalion without fire arrows can inflict good damage and also they die quickly if they are attacking a base from buildings that shoot arrows. I think the rest can be solved with the Hero game mode.

5) I think monsters are weaker now against Heroes, you can fairly kill a Cave troll easily, I remember in BFME1 Cave trolls knock down Heroes when they hit them that's why you need archers and pike to help kill the Cave Troll.

6) Range is good since the Hero will attack from a far but when melee for example Lurtz has a better power than when in range.

7) Not generally weak but I think he needs a little adjustments

8) I think Wizard blast should be a single target attack that can take down one battalion since it's a level 1 power even if the battalion is armed, it should take the battalion down this way, it can be used wisely on Hero units and elite units or units with armor. Or It can take down HP to red as someone here suggested. I however disagree with the idea that it should knock down basic units and units without armor  because all of Mordor's basic orcs cannot receive heavy armor.

9) Word of Power should either knock down enemies and make their defence really weak and vulnerable to damage or take their HP to red.

And I suggest that the Lights of the Ishtari ability should be changed into causing the Enemy Hero to flee in fear instead of light damage like in the films.

I also really think Gandalf should have a powerful leadership, since most of the times he is giving people hope in the films, maybe resistance to fear as well.

kreso

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Re: Heroes - how powerful should they be?
« Antwort #14 am: 14. Jun 2015, 03:59 »
Hi Edain team :)

Enjoy in reading :D
I please You Edain team(Admin). I would like to see Your answer and critics to this suggestions. I make some corrections and amendments. Sorry for my English.

1.,2.,3.,4.) I give some suggestion for each faction heros:

Rohan
Eyown, she is only1 who can challange many enemy heros in Rohan hero pool. REALLY GOOD JOB .
Theoden, corupted or not, early game potentional in my opinon that is the best hero u made, later Theoden's skill Glory Hour should give instant XP).
Theodred is bad for late game, dont have leadership, maybe he could have some leadership for Royal Guards(on horses, and foot if u make Hama's Guards permanet), he is King's son, so Royal Gurads are more motivated to fight.
Eomer spear should have more dmg (he killed Mumakil with it :P) And his lvl10 skill, should call, spawn "Loyal Rohirrim" or "Eored" (maybe some sort of Royal Guard) because now his lvl10 is hard to use in good situation, and it is useless a lot of time, because when he is lvl 10 i do not use that skill, coz i already have Rohirrim to do same effect as that skill did. I think "Loyal Rohirrim"or "Eored" should be fearless, and bit faster than other Rohirrim. They could look like normal Rohirrim with just some detail, who makes them a bit diffrent.
Royal Guards most be more connected with Hama, for example Royal Gurads(required Hama spawned, coz i woudnt spend lot of resuources to upgrade foged blades and shields, to unlock Royal Guards).
 Three Hunters are too low duration. Maybe they should be permanent after 3rd cast, or 1 by 1 called for every cast. but this is litle bit useless. If u get them, than Rohan should have too many heros,if u see problem in that, so longer duration of them. But count how many heroes have Mordor, so it would be equal. They was all time in Rohan and defend Rohan. They deserve thier place in ther hero pool. I know Aragon most be uniqe same as Gimli and Legolas, but thier main part was in Rohan. Maybe Gimli and Legolas could be summoned by spell and Aragon just periodically same as now.

 In Gondor (I love Aragon as figure of all story of the WotR. He is best of all men, and he most be more usefull, he is like hero killer, masskiller and unit supporter. Yeah that would be 2OP, but lets balance thing, u make him really fun coz of his transformance on 4,7,10lvls, but he is not so playable and that transformance will be always used. U dont let player to decide will he used that now or later, every next upgrade/transformace is better and better, so normaly u pick it fastest as u can. Advice: lvl1-3 he gets heal (Athelas), Cloak of Ranger(Invisibility for some seconds while he can move), and Blade Master(bonus attack dmg)  in lvl4, from Strider he goes into Aragon(gets Elven Scabbard(range one high dmg hit)), Passive: gets low splash radius(He can dmg 2-3 targets in front) and hero supporter (Heros near Aragon gain attack dmg and defence/moral defence(armor/health)) Lvl7 he transform his blade to Andruril, He gets passive: bonus attack dmg and bonus attack dmg and armor to Blade Master. In lvl 10 transfor in King Elessar,Passive: leadership bonus for all unit(fearless and bonus defence and faster gain xp).So delete mini-Army of the Dead that he call as lvl 10 because we have that in 10pp. Or maybe u can use that skill only if Aragon is lvl 7 so if he have Anduril.  Cost should be 2500, but for every transform more 400 gold, so he cost at last 3700(U cant get king for just 2500) :). Boromir should get some hp, splash radius, a bit lower dmg, and bonus leadership is only for units from Gondor baracks. Faramir higer bow dmg, lower blade dmg, bonus leadership only for Rangers and some hp for him, cost 1400.That leaderships stacks with Aragon's leadership. Denethor should cost 800 gold. Just compare him with Theoden, and u will see why should he cost 800. Gandalf in 8-9. Bergond is balanced and very fine and playable. :)
Gondor have a lot of diffrent units, but hero... :/ So they need some buffs(op things) for heros, same as Isengard.

 Isengard
 I like Lurtz blade and 3lvl skill when he gets splash dmg. Grima, cost 1300. he is really nice hero killer, Isengard needs him, they dont have so many heros. Honestly all heros are hero killers, so. 2 no-hero killers could kill 1 hero killer. So dont nerf him coz he is strong right now. :) 
Saruman, he is leader Isengard with full dominance, he most be good in every aspect, and economy and army, suporting both.He most be so connected with every thing about Isengard. I cant speak about that coz then i most speak about Isengard playstyle, but U are much better in that thing than me. U make Isengard playstyle good, just intergate Saruman more. He is a bit low hp, just need more resistance, coz he is easy target, if u want land good wizard blast u most be close units, than enemys assassns kill him easly.

Mordor, Nazguls are balanced well, high dmg/low hp, as they should be, but I have nice advice for all Nazguls(including Khamul, Witch-King, and Black Riders) they should be same as Sauron, imortal. So my suggestion is: Nazguls, when they die, turns into ghost like sauron, but look like ghost(white):
 1.) they most back to the Citadel to be respawned (required Sauron pawned) but lower cost after 1. time spawning.
 2.) they have timer like sauron for respawning, then u can balance them.
Because they spam orcwarriors and nazguls so fast and just that combination always wins. So if u put longer cooldown on that timer, they will switch game strategy to other thing that u put in Mordor faction and game with or against Mordor wil be more interesting.
Mollok is a bit expensive, he should be 2000, but lower dmg.
Mouth of Sauron, verry well because he is difficult to play, and u just let ur orc warriors, nazguls and orc archers to fight and u control Mouth of Sauron best as u can.


So i love to play with: Theoden, Eyown, Gamling Lurtz, Sauron(coz of Influence), Nazglus, Bergond, Denethor. Both hobbit :D


I dont even spawn: Saruman, Mollok, Gandalf, Aragon, Faramir, Theodred, Grima.



5)Bow of Faramir should kill Mountain Troll in 3-6 hits depends on lvl. Because spears and Bows should kill trols easly, so same Faramir should.



6)Ratio from Bow and Sword should be  1:0,75=sword:bow. Elves will bring more that thing i think. :)




7., 8. and 9.) 

Gandalf: His basic attacks most be more massive or u most reduce Cooldown of wizard blast. His cost is 3000, too expensive. So buff for Gandalf.Should have 300dmg(lvl1)-700dmg(lvl 10)(and 2pp,Gandalf The White +100% attack bonus)1400 at last(when he reach lvl 10, all units shuld be armored so that woudnt be so OP.), but lower cooldown for Wizard Blast.(if that is possible).
World of Power should declining with larger area of effect. So high dmg in center, low dmg on the edge of effect. :)

Thanks if U read to the end.
I love U I appreciate your work :) I please You Edain team(Admin). I would like to see ur answer and critics to this suggestions.
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Jun 2015, 03:01 von kreso »
"What have we done, O king? Is it a crime to be lost in the forest, to be hungry and thirsty, to be trapped by spiders?"