Men Concepts and Feedback

[TheMostBurning]

Discuss here about your concept to improve this faction,and tell the bugs you found in your experience of playing.Yes,Men would be Gondor

From Terrain Ideas:

Firstly i would improve numenor stonework and fire arrows.NS would cost 3000 and it would double buildings' armor in radius 500(except farms).Fire arrows would cost 2500 ,and they'd double the arrows that buildings fire in radius 500(except farms),in addition all arrows would be fire arrows,meaning that,for example,a level 3 archery range would fire 2 fire arrows(these should hit different targets).
I know,it would cost very much,but it's worth it.I'd increase towers' health too(4500),but they should build 15 second slower.Lastly Soldiers of gondor,spearmen of gondor,tower guards,citadel guards and archers of gondor would receive +50% armor  by purchasing banners(cost increased to 1000) and +50% regeneration rate by purchasing houses of healing while near buildings(except farms).

These changes would slightly steer gondor to a more camp based gameplay.They wouldn't rend gondor a camping faction,but this way its gameplay would fit better with the lore(gondor had only little forces,but the bastions of the second age were the strongest on middle-hearth).It won't affect very much the gameplay until lategame,but proceeding through early to mid game and mid to late game the gondor base will be more and more resistant,not exceeding however,as the balance isn't applied to camping.
I think that for a more balanced modify the building armor bonus should be 60% in radius 500.

[yamsinacan]

Oops, I didn't see this thread. My concept is a different thread, it's called "The Reunited Kingdom."

[yamsinacan]

The Reunited Kingdom
Once Aragorn was crowned King, he eventually reformed the kingdom of Arnor. With this presented, a new concept emerges.

Once Aragorn is crowned King, a special upgrade will be added to the Fortress. It should be a fairly high price, anywhere from 5,000-15,000. Its name should be called "Reestablish Arnor." Once you purchase the upgrade, new soldiers shall be made available. For the Barracks: "Arnor Soldiers" and Arnor Royal Guards and "Arnor Captain"," for the Archery Range: "Arnor Archers" and "Arnor Rangers," for the Stables: "Arnor Knights."

These units will be significantly stronger than their Gondor counterparts. Either in armor, attack damage, or both. Due to their strength, they shall also have a limit. Their limit(for each type of new soldier), should be 4. They do need upgrades purchased for them except banner carriers, but they will require Forge Blades and Heavy Armor to be purchased.

These are simply elite units, not "mini-hero" hordes. They should have higher health, and more vision, as the blood of Numenor ran strong in the Northern Kingdom. The Knight Battalions should have 10 units. The Ranger Battalions should also have 10 units. The Soldier and Archer battalions should have either 10 units (2 rows of 5) 12 units (2 rows of 6) or 15 units (3 rows of 5).

This should not be hard to implement, as only 1 of the 6 units (Arnor Captain) should require a new skin, all the others should have the standard Arnor skins (yours). I find it fits perfect with the crowning of Aragorn, as he eventually did recreate the Kingdom of Arnor.

I would strongly disagree with this being put into the "inn system," as the Kingdoms would be far to close, with the same king, to be using the inn system.

This is what I said in that other topic pretty much.

[TheMostBurning]

I like the idea,really.But i think that the team just doesn't want to work on arnor anymore

After aragorn is crowned king,all unit production buildings can be upgraded with Arnor upgrade(cost 500).Every building must be upgraded to recruit them,this works like normal building level upgrades.

I thought a way to unite the concepts,too.After aragorn is crowned king,all the modifies to fort upgrades and buildings are applied.However,you have to purchase upgrades even though you did before.As men stonework will cost 2000,while numenor stonework 3000,fire arrows cost 1500,while numenor arrows 2500 ecc..
I think,anyway,that aragorn(3500) should be only recruited from the white tower after you captured a inn.From the inn you can recruit Strider for 2000.
I think that aragorn is simply too hard to obtain,he is the strongest hero of the faction,he should be recruitable even though you don't have any inn.There are maps where there are no inns,or where there is only one.Capturing that single inn makes you gain the upper hand with one click,this is simply imba.

The last concept is about trebuchets.They should,first of all,be bigger.In the films they were huge,in-game they are ridicolously smart.
Since bfme1 trebuchets could be upgraded with fire stones.But gondorians never used flaming projectiles,they used rocks and,in case,pieces of numenor bastions.
The flaming stone upgrade should be replaced by numenor rocks upgrade(this is the default upgrade,not related to arnor ).The siege damage is doubled,while there's no longer any fire damage.

[Dralo]

I think,anyway,that aragorn(3500) should be only recruited from the white tower after you captured a inn.From the inn you can recruit Strider for 2000.
I think that aragorn is simply too hard to obtain,he is the strongest hero of the faction,he should be recruitable even though you don't have any inn.There are maps where there are no inns,or where there is only one. Capturing that single inn makes you gain the upper hand with one click,this is simply imba.

actually i agree with you that aragon should be recruited in a gondorian building (the white tower or the barracks) but otherwise in the book strider used to be in an inn, so it is correct, if he may be found there in the game....
but i like your idea of having aragorn, the second version, in the white tower later
maybe it would be better if aragorn is recruitable after one has already obtained this level on (on?) strider...

about your concept of trebuchets:
these trebuchets you are talking about were attached to the walls and towers of minas tirith, so they had to be much bigger than a mobile version
but i think you are right with the flaming projectiles, it would be better to replace them with nomenor rocks (or something similar)

[Jarl Hittheshit]

you already can recruit Aragorn once you have recruit him in the inn. Afer his death you can recruit him in the white tower...
And i think the idea with the reinforcement of Arnor is nice, but there are too many Arnor soldiers to brings them in the old Gondor Barracks. perhaps there should be a new Building after you purchased the Upgrade in the fortress with some chosen usefull Upgrades oder Soldiers.

But i agree with your trebuchets.

[Dralo]

you already can recruit Aragorn once you have recruit him in the inn. Afer his death you can recruit him in the white tower...

oops sorry, didn't know this (i don't play gondor very often)
in this case it should last as it already is...

[TheMostBurning]

Sorry,i made a mistake.I meant that strider would be recruitable from the inn for 2000,while aragorn for 3500(from the white tower)even though you nevere recruited strider before.This is to avoid the lack of a inn becoming a decisive factor,as aragorn is by far the strongest men hero(elessar).

[Lord of Arnor]

The Reunited Kingdom
Once Aragorn was crowned King, he eventually reformed the kingdom of Arnor. With this presented, a new concept emerges.

Once Aragorn is crowned King, a special upgrade will be added to the Fortress. It should be a fairly high price, anywhere from 5,000-15,000. Its name should be called "Reestablish Arnor." Once you purchase the upgrade, new soldiers shall be made available. For the Barracks: "Arnor Soldiers" and Arnor Royal Guards and "Arnor Captain"," for the Archery Range: "Arnor Archers" and "Arnor Rangers," for the Stables: "Arnor Knights."

These units will be significantly stronger than their Gondor counterparts. Either in armor, attack damage, or both. Due to their strength, they shall also have a limit. Their limit(for each type of new soldier), should be 4. They do need upgrades purchased for them except banner carriers, but they will require Forge Blades and Heavy Armor to be purchased.

These are simply elite units, not "mini-hero" hordes. They should have higher health, and more vision, as the blood of Numenor ran strong in the Northern Kingdom. The Knight Battalions should have 10 units. The Ranger Battalions should also have 10 units. The Soldier and Archer battalions should have either 10 units (2 rows of 5) 12 units (2 rows of 6) or 15 units (3 rows of 5).

This should not be hard to implement, as only 1 of the 6 units (Arnor Captain) should require a new skin, all the others should have the standard Arnor skins (yours). I find it fits perfect with the crowning of Aragorn, as he eventually did recreate the Kingdom of Arnor.

I would strongly disagree with this being put into the "inn system," as the Kingdoms would be far to close, with the same king, to be using the inn system.

This is what I said in that other topic pretty much.

Though I am a huge fan of Arnor (just look at my Username ), I don't really like this idea. Arnor ist Arnor and Gondor is Gondor; it's not necessary to mix up the different feelings of these peoples, even though they are very similiar due to the numenorean roots of both countries. Also,Gondor just doesn't need more units, especially not more powerfull ones. I think it's good as it is right now, with Arnor instead of Gondor on several maps.

I like the idea of getting Aragorn easier; I like him, but he is difficult to recruit right now.

Trebuchets are a very old (and good) idea, but it's not easy to mod them because you needed many new animations, as far as I now. But I would like them, too.

MfG

Lord of Arnor

[Shagrat]

I think, that Arnor-stuff would go to much into the 4 Age and Edain plays nearly only (except Angmar) in the 50 years between the Hobbit and LotR and the War of the Ring, the "recolonization" of Arnor began in the 4 Age, the 3 Age endet (if i remember right) with the cleaning of the shire

 

The flaming stone upgrade should be replaced by numenor rocks upgrade(this is the default upgrade,not related to arnor ).The siege damage is doubled,while there's no longer any fire damage.

im against that, because: why should this stone make more damage than the normal projectile? And the flaming Stones are good against Lorien, espescially with Loriens Fortress-up

[TheMostBurning]

I think, that Arnor-stuff would go to much into the 4 Age and Edain plays nearly only (except Angmar) in the 50 years between the Hobbit and LotR and the War of the Ring, the "recolonization" of Arnor began in the 4 Age, the 3 Age endet (if i remember right) with the cleaning of the shire

  im against that, because: why should this stone make more damage than the normal projectile? And the flaming Stones are good against Lorien, espescially with Loriens Fortress-up

In 2.01,dwarven catas deal 300 siege damage per projectile(double projectile).Upgraded they deal 450 siege damage and 300 flame damage per projectile.The gondor trebuchets(according to books and films)never used flaming stones,but they did use parts of broken buildings.So the trebuchet no longer does any flame damage,being weaker against units,but deals more siege damage than any other ranged siege unit.Seeing everywhere flaming stones is..boring.

[Shagrat]

Nur von der Nicht-Erwähnung auf die Nicht-Existenz zu schließen, ist ein Luxus den wir uns nicht erlauben können. ^^

and Lorien has a fortress up with that no siege-machines kann attack the fortress (if they not have for exampel flaming Stones)

[Dralo]

i would prefer the non flaming projectiles,
but i dont think that the damage should be increased (i'd rather decrease the normal damage on units)

[TheMostBurning]

and Lorien has a fortress up with that no siege-machines kann attack the fortress (if they not have for exampel flaming Stones)

Lothlorien fort is only immune to siege.Who would use siege to destroy a lothlorien fort,come on

@Dralo
Upgraded trebuchets deal both siege and flame damage.Generally,buildings are weaker to siege damage,and units to fire damage.What im proposing is that if,for istance,we consider an upgraded trebuchet deals 800 siege damage and 400 flame(i don't know,however),it should deal 1200 siege damage(this is just an example).
Less fire damage=less damage against units.More siege damage=more damage against buildings.The upgrade should cost 400,it think 1400 is worth a ranged siege unit capable of dealing more damage than a basic ram.The speed should be slightly decreased,as well.

About the size,well,they could be as big as a troll stone thrower,not huge.This would justify their lack of speed.

[Dralo]

ok i understand... i forgot about the additional damage of the fire^^
but wouldn't it be enough only to remove fire damage? (and increase seige damage only a little?)  Because i think gondorian trebuchets already cause very high damage to buildings, increasing it would make them too powerfull (it isnt good for balance if one slingshot may destroy any of ones building)

[TheMostBurning]

Hm,they could fire slower,they are the most expensive siege unit in the game,they must be strong.Also consider that gondor has no close siege unit.

[TheMostBurning]

Ok,after about one month i can't understand how could i propose a so imba change

Anyway,i changed it.The upgrades remains as they are now,but numenor stonework.
Purchasing it(3000) and building the white tower will still allow the ivory tower upgrade,but it(white tower isn't needed) will also "upgrade" the building-support structure(i don't remember the name,the one that allows great harvest)
Notice that BS price should be reduced to 700.
Researching the numenor stonework will allow gondorian architects to revive the ancient numenor structural engineering,but in a lessened form.

All buildings in radius 100(im not really sure about the radius)from the BS gain +50% armor,double rebuilding rate and -50% rebuilding delay,wells double the heal rate and they respawn 2 fallen battalion's member per time,building time reduced by 25%.These effects don't stack.Only one BS can be built in radius 200(still not sure about the radius,it should be twice the effect radius however).BS can recruit builders,destroyed building in their radius but the fortress leave rubble,from which they can be rebuilt paying half building price.Maximum BS limit 5.
Builders can enter the BS(3 slots).
This concept could be related with the fortress and tower concept i posted on the General thread,as they all come from a single idea.

[TheMostBurning]

This proposal is about the elite infantry unit of gondor and his captain,which arein my opinion,simply not well developed.

Defenders of the Citadel

Citadel Guards

These specially-trained soldiers form the toughest and last defence at Gondor's disposal.The strenght of gondor lies in the courage of its warriors,but especially in its bastions.The defenders of the hearth of the city,the citadel,are the most admired soldiers among all by the people of Minas Tirith.All this,according to the lore.

The fact is that Citadel Guards,which should be elite units,are simply special units,being able to switch between sword and spear.This,i think,is a rather poor bonus.

Citadel Guards can only be upgraded with BannerCarrier and their cost is increased to 1200;cp requirements remain 60 and limit number is reduced to 3.
They are trained to fight with shield,sword,spear and bow,gaining an extreme versatility.They have 2 weapon switch menu,shield/bow and sword/spear.
In shield mode they can use sword or spear,otherwise they only use bow.
Sword mode enables ShieldWall formation,which brings the usual bonuses,Spear mode Porcupine formation,Bow mode Longshot,all at level 2.
Citadel Guards have a level 2 passive ability that doubles the effect of near allies' formations.

The Captain of the Guards

Beregond is only a member of the order of the Guards in the book,but in-game he is represented as their captain.However,he has no real connection to them,and offers no bonus.This has to change.

Beregond switch ability is improved,now he can switch between sword(bonus against heroes and infantry),spear(bonus against monsters and cavalry) and bow.
His leadership now provides +50% armor and double experience rate to Citadel Guards,in addition to building bonus.
His Watcher of the White Tree camouflage ability is replaced by a passive ability gained at level 5,Guardian of the Citadel,granting him +20% armor and damage for each near CG battalion.
Others abilities remain as now.
Cost increased to 1300.

There was a little soldiers that fought in the battles of minas tirith and morannon together with Beregond.

Pippin

Pippin helped the soldiers of gondor in the siege of minas tirith,and killed the captain of the trolls in the book,which was instead fought by aragorn in the film.

Pippin gains 3 new abilities.
At level 5,he has Palantir of Orthanc,a scout abilit casted on an enemy unit,that shows the map in radius 400 from both user and opponent's main fort for 15 seconds.
Level 7 enables his actual passive ability Guard of the Citadel,granting +15%/35%/50% armor and damage for each near CG battalion.
His level 10 is a particularly powerful hit,able to hit trolls and werewolves only.This also applies to hero trolls.The strenght of the hit increases depending on left health : green health 1x/orange health 2x/red health 3x.Base damage 1000 hero.Cooldown 2 minutes.
Cost increased to 600.

[TheMostBurning]

Here are 2 mini-concepts regarding Gandalf the White.

Gandalf the White is openly stronger than the Grey.To underline this,his Lightning Sword ability gains a 15 area of damage effect.The spell is still casted on a selected area,however if it is casted clicking on a single enemy unit/hero,it will first attack that.This is to strenghten the spell itself,and to avoid wasting hits on random targets.

The second concept is about his mount.Shadowfax is the fastest of all Mearas,but in-game it doesn't seem so.Mounted Gandalf the White's speed is increased to 120(im not sure about Imrahil's speed,130?).

[Lugdush]

It would be interesting if the Arnor was Gandalf the Grey and Gondor only Gandalf the White.
 I think that it was more unique Arnor/Gondor. And both available in the same building (Inn or Fortress)

[Shagrat]

but Gandalf became the white after he felt in Moria and the main part of the Mod is based in the time between the Hobbit and the end of the war of the Ring, so Gondor needs both Gandalfs, because he was in Gondor as both, the Grey and the White. And it would make his ringform and the recruitation off Gandalf the white less unique

[Lugdush]

Too true
I have another suggestion:
Add Gandalf to the Arnor fortress
Arnor in the Inn already Has too many Heroes.

[Oloha]

Hello, I have a suggestion to the Arnor:
Arnor has in the Inn half the infantry of Gondor. Which is nearly identical to the infantry Arnor
I have a suggestion replace the spell of what summon the rangers spell help of Gondor.
Spell summon Eärnur and Gondor infantry, archers, and riders of all improvements.

Arvedui could take over some skills Eärnur.

To compensate for the units of Gondor in the Inn might be:
Lossoth units what helped Arvedui.
Appearance: http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2078/lossoth1.jpg

1) Lossoth warrior:
They would be armed with two-handed axes and would be strong against infantry and buildings.
Price: 400

2) Lossoth hunters:
They would be armed with spears and they would be strong against cavalry and moster.
Price: 500

[Shagrat]

there were already concepts for the Lossoths, but they were denied, if i remember correctly because the lossoths helped Arvedui AFTER the war against Angmar and not during the war

[Oloha]

Oh,  I thought it was earlier, my mistake.

I have another suggestion:
What expanded Lindon Elves in the pub?

Lindon Elves fighting against Angmar around ten thousand.
Certainly more than one type of units.
In the original game were two units Lindon.
What these units back into the game to add Arnor?

[Virssagon]

more suggestions to play will be given when somebody put them back into the game