Different hero units for Dwarven Kingdoms

[Tienety]

Three Dwarven Kingdoms have different units but they have same hero unit - Veterans from Khazad-Dum.
I think that all Dwarven Kingdoms should have their own heroe units in Travel camp and go an expedition to another location. So, It will be bigger the difference between dwarven subfactions. Also, I think that veterans should be limited to only three battalions.

Erebor: The expedition to Khazad-Dum

Units: Veterans from Khazad-Dum

Veterans from Khazad-Dum are the best choice for Erebor. Balin's Expedition to Moria came from Erebor.

Iron Hills: The expedition to Erebor

Units: Veterans from the Battle of Five Armies or Veterans from the Erebor

Dain send troops to Erebor help their brothers from Ered Luin. If they survive, they can back as Veterans from the Erebor.
This unit could gets designs from Dwarven infantry(with swords and spears) from the movie:

Or design of old Veterans from Khazad-Dum:

 

Ered Luin: The expedition to Eriador

Units: Dwarven adventurers

Dwarves of Ered Luin go to Eriador for business and adventure. If they survive, they can back as Dwarven adventurers. They have survived many adventures in the wilderness. Dwarven adventurers have two axe and they don't use heavy armor. Ered Luin has all units with great armor, but Adventurers have a better attack and speed but a little weaker armor.

Integration of Ram riders:

Dain(Iron Hills version) can summon temporarily or permanently one battalion of Ram riders on level 10. I think that they are perfectly fit for Dain with his boar. Dwarves are not factions of riders. I think that dwarves should not have many battalion of Ram riders.

Mithril

There's one problem, now only Erebor heroes can get Mithril.
I have two ideas for Mithril  in spellbook:

Option 1) Mithril can be new ultimate passive spell in spellbook. This spell unlocks mithril for heroes, now all heroes can buy mithril shirt as in 3.8.1.

Option 2) Dwarves gets new spell "Kingly gift" and Greed spell will be removed.
Selected hero gets mithril shirt.

What do you think about this idea? 

[Ealendril der Dunkle]

Hey Tienety,
once more some discussion about dwarven units? 
I think you mean the heroe units and not the elite units. Every dwarven faction has its own elite units: Dwarven Defenders (Ered Luin), Dwarven Slayers (Iron Hills) and Axe Swinger (Erebor).
Personally, i think the khazad veterans are fitting perfect as heroe units for every faction.^^

[Tienety]

Hey Tienety,
once more some discussion about dwarven units? 
I think you mean the heroe units and not the elite units. Every dwarven faction has its own elite units: Dwarven Defenders (Ered Luin), Dwarven Slayers (Iron Hills) and Axe Swinger (Erebor).
Personally, i think the khazad veterans are fitting perfect as heroe units for every faction.^^

Yes, I mean heroe units.
If I know, Expedition into Moria always came from Erebor. Ered Luin and Iron Hills wanted to conquer mainly Erebor.
Of course, Ered Luin can have all interesting things, including movie soldiers from Erebor. 
Why not a bigger difference between Dwarven Kingdoms and unique units with movie atmosphere for Erebor and Iron Hills? 

[Palpou]

Actually, I find it's a pretty good idea !
There was a lot of work - hard work, to create the three different kingdoms. They have very specific things (crossbow/bow/axe thrower ; elite units, different heroes..), unique graphism too, but why not more diversity/units with this ram idea ? Even adventurers would be a nice addition !
For Erebor and Khazad Dum I don't know, of course it came from Erebor but it's a central position that can help the three kingdoms. And it's good to have a "transversal" units in the three factions.
Another specific unit for Erebor would be great. Royal guard or... I don't know what.

But it's a good idea that the three dwarves kingdoms have specific gameplay too, if one of them had ram for mobility (but not for every dwarve kingdoms, they are mainly slow !).
More differences between kingdoms would be great, like elves with Elrond/Galadriel/Thranduil differences (after I'm not a specialist of Tolkien and I don't know if that's possible, dwarves seem closer between them than elves).

[NetoD20]

I'm fine with the expedition working in the same way to all of the three kingdoms and them getting the same Veterans of Khazad-dûn units.
But I really wanted the ram riders to be in all of the three factions, I think ram pastoring should be an universal characteristic among the dwarves given that all three kingdom are in mountainous areas and that they are so cool I wouldn't want the rams to be limited to one subfaction.

I propose instead to give all three kingdoms a new settlement: the ram fence/camp/pastures, it would be akin to the current dwarven lumber mill serving the same purpose of a resource building to gather lumber, but it would incorporate the aspect of dwarven pastoring of rams, using them as pack animals.

But the point of it is that having this ram settlement and leveling it up would be a prerequisite for getting both the elite cavalry units of ram riders (limited to three) on the Hall of Warriors and the battle wagons in the workshop! This way all dwarven kingdoms would have their unique already existent elite units and a universal elite unit of ram riders. This wouldn't hurt the concept of dwarves being a slower faction because it actually makes it harder for them getting a fast unit, but at the same time gives them something more that is still limited in the same way Mordor only gets cavalry by going outside.

That all makes me remember of this picture of a dwarven peasant using his ram for carrying lumber:

What do you think of this idea?

[Palpou]

It's a good idea, and as we see in the film (but it's the film.. !), Thorin & cie have absolutely no difficulty to ride rams. It means (maybe?) that all dwarves learned to ride rams.

But it's a shame for the dwarf gameplay, it was nice to have the cart system (but in the 4.0 they are very fragile).
Your alternative is not that bad, to use settlements.

[Tienety]

Interesting idea but If all subfactions will have everything, everyone will play only Ered Luin with Erebor soldiers from movie and ram riders.
I think it would be nice if every subfaction will have their own unique things from movies and you will have a some reasons to play all subfactions, not only Ered Luin with everything except Dain.

[Palpou]

Yes, and I remember you all that Iron Hills is far to the east, north-east. So Dain needs cavalry ^^.

But you have a point, Tienety, for my part I played Erebor first, then Iron Hill, and then Ered Luin. And now it's only Ered Luin..

Dwarves need two things: more units, and more specific units/gameplay for each sub-faction.

[korner]

I don´t like ram-riders being implemented for the dwarven factions!

Reason: Absolutely NO evidence for dwarves riding rams in Tolkien´s books.
I didn´t like it in the movie (as I didn´t like most of the Hobbit movies) and I don´t want to see it in the mod.

The dwarves are a faction without cavalry and they should stay as they are, with the exception of the god old battlewaggons.

[Tienety]

I don´t like ram-riders being implemented for the dwarven factions!

Reason: Absolutely NO evidence for dwarves riding rams in Tolkien´s books.
I didn´t like it in the movie (as I didn´t like most of the Hobbit movies) and I don´t want to see it in the mod.

The dwarves are a faction without cavalry and they should stay as they are, with the exception of the god old battlewaggons.

This is your opinion. Edain mod includes a lot things from the movies. Many people like this Ram riders. This is something unique for the Iron Hills.

[Palpou]

Plus, I don't remember at all where (convenient, isn't it ?), but I read somewhere a long time ago that dwarves riding rams in World of Warcraft were already a plagiarism from Tolkien. It was a huge debate between Warcraft and Warhammer, Warhammer seemed to be the first created, and then someone came to put Tolkien as a common reference with a huge list. With rams too.

I read the Hobbit and the 3 Lord of the Rings but I didn't see rams. Perhaps in the Silmarillon or one of the other book/script/talk to his friends or family ?
For my part I'm not shocked.

[korner]

I don´t like ram-riders being implemented for the dwarven factions!

Reason: Absolutely NO evidence for dwarves riding rams in Tolkien´s books.
I didn´t like it in the movie (as I didn´t like most of the Hobbit movies) and I don´t want to see it in the mod.

The dwarves are a faction without cavalry and they should stay as they are, with the exception of the god old battlewaggons.

This is your opinion. Edain mod includes a lot things from the movies. Many people like this Ram riders. This is something unique for the Iron Hills.

- if you implement it for the Iron Hills only, it´d be more according to the movies, but it would make the 2 other dwarven factions lack an important unit. Then you´d have to find something similar for them to make them compeet with the Iron Hills. What would that be?

- if you implement the riders for all dwarven faction, then the dwarves would lose their unique characteristic (not having cavalry). That´s simply something that won´t happen, as the Edain team always tries to make every faction unique, with unique gameplay.

Furthermore I can tell you, that the Hobbit movies (and especially those riders, except for Dain´s pig) are not very popular in the german community (and also among the team, as far as I remember).
So, of course you may discuss and rise ideas, but don´t be upset if this won´t be implemented...

[NetoD20]

Oh, I'm sad to hear that, those rams are what I was expecting the most from Edain's dwarves. But that's ok, I'll no longer raising my hopes for this...

What about movie design for Iron Hills and Erebor soldiers? Does the Team plan on implementing it or will they keep the current 3.8.1 look?

[TiberiusOgden]

Furthermore I can tell you, that the Hobbit movies (and especially those riders, except for Dain´s pig) are not very popular in the german community (and also among the team, as far as I remember).

As far as I know ... rams are already implemented for battle wagons or demolishers. So there is definitely inspiration from the last Hobbit movie.

[korner]

Oh, I'm sad to hear that, those rams are what I was expecting the most from Edain's dwarves. But that's ok, I'll no longer raising my hopes for this...

What about movie design for Iron Hills and Erebor soldiers? Does the Team plan on implementing it or will they keep the current 3.8.1 look?

I am not part of the Edain team. I cannot tell you, what they are planning. I also may be wrong about the ram-riders, it is simply my impression that the team doesn´t want them. (and me and many others in the german community also don´t like them)

As far as I know ... rams are already implemented for battle wagons or demolishers. So there is definitely inspiration from the last Hobbit movie.

I didn´t say they don´t use anything from the movies.
I didn´t say they won´t implement rams.
I just said (that I think) they won´t implement dwarves riding on rams.
It´s a difference between riding on rams, or using rams to pull battlewagons...